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SAA On The Hot Seat
South African Airways has begun to use Airbus 340-600s on its long-haul flights from the US, relegating its 747's to the dustbin of history. Unfortunately, when it changed planes, it adopted a seat configuration so punishing to travelers it has generated a tidal wave of complaints. Here at The Hunting Report, we've never seen anything quite like the uproar this seat configuration has created. Read the comments yourself - and weep. And/or post a comment yourself. Are you listening, South African Airways? - Don Causey, Editor/Publisher.
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Comments will not appear instantly after being submitted, and are subject to approval and editing.
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Posted: June-19 @ 15:55 est.
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| Name: |
David | ..... |
| Comment: |
Just returned back to my home in Atlanta . I can honestly say that on both legs of the journey to and from Johannesburg on that piece of junk Airbus I have neve been that stressed out . The FAA should stop these flights because it is not humane to allow passengers to sit in these economy class seats. There was a large metal box under the seat in front of me so I only managed to put my right foot under the right side of the seat and for 19 hrs. Take a good look at the passengers after the Atlanta haul and see how many people are smiling because they had shuch a wonderful flight. A dam nightmare is what it is!!!. This is an insult to an average person to force them to sit in these seats. I might be wrong but according to some configurations of the Airbus, Virgin has 66 less seats on the same plane |
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Posted: May-16 @ 18:21 est.
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| Name: |
William ..... |
| Comment: |
I have flown on SAA 5 times now and getting ready to suffer thru another flight to Johannesburg here in two weeks. The first time I flew on SAA in 1999, I felt nothing but good thoughts for the airline and the service it rendered. Again, in 2000, it was a good flight. I did rather like that at the time you could depart the airplane in the Cape Verde Islands to streatch your legs and have a smoke. In 2002, The ability to depart the plane in the Cape Verde Islands was no longer available and had to sit and watch. Recently in November of 2004 and here in March of 2005, I had the misfortune of riding on the airbus cattle car. I am not a big person at 5'8 and 144 lbs, and I felt cramped. You get on their bus and they do get you to Johannesburg. That is the only good thing I can say about the flight. The in flight services have seemed to suffer, the cabin staff seems to have taken leasons from the folks at Northwest and learned how to become surly and indifferent. I will continue to use SAA simply because it is such a nightmare to fly thru the UK on BA which seems to go out of it's way to discourage taking one's firearms along on a hunting trip. Last year in August on a trip to Australia, it took them 3 hours to check my rifles in at BA. So, SAA to me seems to be the only real player when traveling to Southern Africa. If there where another viable option, I would most likely take it. In the mean time, I can only sit in the cramped seat and pray that the flight will end soon. |
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Posted: March-04 @ 20:38 est.
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| Name: |
Brian | ..... |
| Comment: |
I have flown SAA 3 times - once, Hong Kong to JHB; JHB-Uganda return; and, now, at new year from JHB to Sao Paulo, Brazil. Until then, the best economy class I had seen was Singapore. SAA was good, but not the best. I am from SA so say that is all pragmatism. BUT...the last SAA flight by far the best flight I have ever been on and that is the truth. Most comfortable, great staff and good meals. If wanta terrible airline just fly Northwest or Olympic (Greece). I have used 10 airlines in the last 6 years and this last SAA flight was the best,hands down. Perhaps it just the US routes, I am not sure. But I have had great and terrible service from airlines and different times... |
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Posted: March-01 @ 08:49 est.
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| Name: |
John | ..... |
| Comment: |
All else seems to be going smoothly on a recent trip to South Africa. Then I spotted my plane. Horrors of horrors! I was really sad to see that South African Airlines was running out of money. I mourn so very many things that used to be. Used to be that I was young and strong and had a bit more hair. Used to be that people were more trustworthy an even politicians did not steal so much as they do today. And it used to be that SAA flew only wide-bodied jumbo jets, 747-400’s, 757’s and 767’s. Real airplanes. Now they have lowered themselves to using Frog-built, inadequate, sardine cans from “Air-Bus”. How “Air-Bus” has managed to reduce already miniscule leg room to this claustrophobic annoyance is a wonderment to me. It seems difficult enough to expand items beyond reasonable expectations, but to actually shrink things beyond the molecular stage - well, that’s quite an accomplishment. Mice would have to squeeze themselves into these seats. Small, anemic mice. My five foot eight inch, two hundred twenty pound frame is substantial enough without being ample. I can only imagine the difficulty my “Big Boned” friends would have in suffering through this flight, necessarily wedged in with a magnum sized shoehorn. - John |
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Posted: February-23 @ 12:07 est.
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| Name: |
richard ..... |
| Comment: |
SAA used to be a good airline. Not anymore. Thankfully, I splurged and flew business class to South Africa on the first leg of my trip to Botswana this past July. By coincidence, my sister and brother in law were on the same plane. I was in row one. They were in row 52! After we left NY and they had the normal feeding of the passengers, I worked my way to the back of the plane to say hello to my sister. I was shocked at what I saw. The conditions were deplorable! The rows of seats were so close together, my sister and brother in law, who are both short, small people, (5'5" and 5'9") could barely fit in their seats. Crossing their legs was out of the question. I have never seen anything like it. I used to think Northwest Airlines "cattle cars" were bad. SAA has taken disregard for their passengers to whole new low. Before making my trek to the "steerage" section, I had commented to a very prim and proper cabin attendant in business class that the seats up front were very nice. He immediately told, "This is a shit airplane. The worst to work in... and I feel so terribly sorry for anyone in the back." Once in the back, I understood what he meant. My advice is to avoid SAA at all costs. Take American or KLM through Europe and then come down. It takes longer but they treat you at least as good as one would treat a dog. The same can not be said for SAA. |
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Posted: February-13 @ 19:36 est.
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| Name: |
Glen Bis..... |
| Comment: |
My October 2004 outbound SAA trip was so uncomfortable that I decided to collect data upon my return. The SAA 737 I flew from Vic Falls to Jo'berg provided 30 inches from tail bone to knee cap, and 18 inches from right to left hip point. For someone over six foot, this is snug but not uncomfortable. The SAA A340-600 provided 27 inches instead of 30, and 17 inches instead of 18. The tray in the A340-600 bulkhead seats reduces your right to left hip point space to 16 1/2 inches. Your knee caps are pressed into the seat pocket of the seat back in front of you on non-bulkhead seats. That seat pocket has a design that was not endearing: a 1/4 inch steel rod intended to stiffen the pocket is pressed into your knee cap for 17 hours. If your inseam exceeds 33 inches, you cannot get your legs under the seat in front of you to avoid that blasted steel rod (with force it can be bent towards your feet). In case the short people are starting to feel smug, be advised that your kidneys are at the mercy of the pissed off 5 foot 10 inch or taller person that is seated behind you. A special technique for meal service has been developed on SAA. First heat all meals, then let them cool for two hours so the staff can handle them without gloves with no risk of burned fingers. A US military MRE with water activated heating pouch would be fine dining by comparison. The in-flight magazine advises that an A340-600 has 20 percent more room for airfreight than a 747-400. I thought passenger service at less-than-boxcar standard was reserved for those bound for an extermination camp. |
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Posted: February-08 @ 14:46 est.
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| Name: |
Neil Bur..... |
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This letter is in regard to a flight I took on South African Airways this past August 4, 2004 from Atlanta to Johannesburg. Our first meal was served at approximately 12 o’clock, consisting of unidentified meat, 50% of which was fat, with one small piece of potato. Meal two, eight hours later, called dinner, consisted of cucumber sandwich. Service overall was abominable. It seemed as though the personnel tried to do as little as possible. Attendants stayed together in groups, forcing us to go find them for water or drinks. The person making announcements on the public address system was so language deficient as to be unintelligible for the most part, which could be dangerous in an emergency. SAA has fallen to a second-class airline with third class service. The return flight to JFK on September 27 was a bit better as far as food was concerned. However, the service was no better. The communication system was improved. Every hunter I have talked with who has flown South African Airways recently has told the same story of poor service and bad food. SAA needs to address these concerns before another hunting season, or I and others like myself will be looking to other airlines for our transportation needs. |
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Posted: November-14 @ 16:41 est.
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| Name: |
Tad Bren..... |
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To add insult to injury, SSA didn't bother to have headsets for their video system for my flight from Atlanta to South Africa in May, 2004. On my return flight, they removed me from my seat to make room for another passenger, but didn't bother to re-seat me. After talking to about five different flight attendents (over the span of half an hour), they found a seat for me between two very large people. I still don't have a explanation as to why they moved me at the Dakar stop. |
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Posted: November-07 @ 09:46 est.
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| Name: |
Sgt. Gre..... |
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SAA has got to be kidding. It took two weeks of Advil to finally get rid of the kinks from Joberg to Atlanta flight, August 04. I see two major blunders here: One by Airbus for designing a plane that will chase customers away, the other by SAA for buying it. So long, SAA...... |
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Posted: October-30 @ 14:51 est.
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| Name: |
Jens Ein..... |
| Comment: |
I have flown from Europe to Johannesburg 3 times this year with SAA. This was my first time to fly in the Airbus 340-600. That is the worst plane I have ever flown tourist class in. The new Airbus seats are uncomfortable, and the configuration really crams people in. The next 2 times I flew with the 747-400 from London. Plenty of room! The new Airbus is surely going to cost SAA many passengers. |
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Posted: October-26 @ 21:24 est.
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| Name: |
jake | ..... |
| Comment: |
I just returned from RSA traveling in the airbus 340-600. This was my first trip to RSA. I will not fly SAA again. I am a small frame person and the plane was not comfortable. I do not like traveling in a cattle car!!! |
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Posted: October-21 @ 15:11 est.
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| Name: |
Oom Jan ..... |
| Comment: |
I just returned from RSA via SAA airbus 340-600 This was my 14th trip in 11 years of flying SAA and I am finished flying SAA! This plane had air conditioning problems, One toliet was not working. And talk about being packed like sardines!! The cabin crew's atitudes are reflective of the constant compaining of the passegers. I will never fly SAA again |
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Posted: October-05 @ 14:12 est.
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| Name: |
Bob Mitc..... |
| Comment: |
Of all of the planes I have ever flown in, including small commuter and charter planes, the Airbus 340-600 has to be the most uncomfortable. The seats are terribly small and hard, and they have little cushioning – plus, they are crowded together with little leg space. Under each window seat (and under some of the seats in the middle of the plane) is a metal box (presumably holding a life preserver) which takes up a lot of the leg space. This forces the person behind to sit with both legs off-center to the right. This might be tolerable on a one hour flight, but on a 17- to 18-hour flight to and from Africa it added considerably to the agony. The armrests between the seats do not fold up all of the way, but protrude into the space, which makes getting in and out of the seat much more difficult. The headphone jack is midway down the interior side of the armrest, which means it is subject to a lot of force from the passenger and is difficult to install. My jack had already been broken on the seat I had going over, and the one I had on the return flight was loose and intermittant. The quality of the software built into the in-flight audio-video had to be designed by a Neanderthal. Even by SAA's own published data in their magazine, the Airbus carries fewer people slower for a shorter distance than the 747. The Airbus has to stop at the Cape Verde Islands on the trip over, as well as on the trip back. Passengers continuing on are no longer allowed off of the plane during this refueling stop, which is just as well because the international section of that airport was truly a hell-hole when I was there in 1998. Using the data provided on their in-flight screen I calculated that the airbus was generally flying between 515 to 545 mph. With the 747 it was very common to be exceeding 600 mph, and on occasion as high as 650 mph. I can't see the advantage of the Airbus 340-600 versus the 747 unless there happens to be a big government subsidy for the French firm or SAA's purposeful decision not to buy American. SAA's service was never really good. It used to be that leaving the States the service got progressively worse the closer you got to the RSA. Now, it seems they have evened out the service to miserable for the entire flight. And woe unto the passenger who happens to have a shoulder or knee in the aisle - a service cart will quickly show him the error of his ways. They now throw a meal at you with not a smile in sight, put on the movies, turn out the lights, then disappear into their spacious service areas. If you dare to enter these areas while trying to stretch your legs, you are clearly made to feel uncomfortable about being there. During the refueling stop on the way back to the US, passengers must now remove everything from the overhead bins for inspection by security. I was told this is to check to make sure that nothing was put there by a non-passenger. While all of this is occurring ground, crews are busy bulldozing their way up and down the aisles with trash and service carts going in both directions. If there were an alternate airline, I would certainly fly with them. The only other way to get to South Africa, as you know, is through Europe, which adds time and expense to an already long, expensive trip. The flight on SAA leaves very bad feelings at the beginning and end of what otherwise is generally a very good experience. Bob Mitchell Note from Gail Mitchell: The space between the seats was so short that it was impossible to eat our meals without asking the people in front of us to put their seats in an upright position. When the seats are fully reclined (which is not to say that the seat reclines very far) the person in front is right in the face of the one behind. When we left Atlanta after being on the Airbus for 17 hours, we flew on a 737. I have never thought they were particularly spacious planes, but after being on the Airbus, I felt as though we were in first class seats! This trip to and from South Africa was truly the most miserable trip I have ever experienced. |
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Posted: September-30 @ 12:54 est.
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| Name: |
Rob Sach..... |
| Comment: |
I have just sent an e-mail to SAA and let them know of my intention to fly through Europe with my wife if modifications are not made to the Airbus Seating/pitch. I urge anyone who flies on SAA to do the same. Go to their wsebsite www.flysaa.com and write them. If they hear from enough people, changes should be instituted. |
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Posted: September-29 @ 20:34 est.
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| Name: |
Tom | m..... |
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Absolutely the worst 22 hours that I have ever had the misfortune to spend. The new Airbus planes are the worst that I have ever been on. Whoever at SAA came up with this winner needs to lose his or her job. My back hurt for almost 2 weeks after my return. The service also is subpar even by Southwest Airline standards. No way will I ever put myself through that torture again. By contrast, the previous 2 trips on the 747 were much better, both comfort and service wise. Get with it SAA!! |
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Posted: September-29 @ 18:05 est.
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| Name: |
Allen w...... |
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Regarding the new Airbus seating - I want to add my complaint to others you may have received. I took 8 people to South Africa this year. None of them want to return because of the flight conditions. Not only were the seat dimensions and box under the seat horrible, but our TV's did not work and half the toilets would not flush on the return trip. My wife had to keep her seat vertical the whole trip because the large man behind her had his legs against the back of her seat. Last year I took 21 people. It was fine because we were on a 747. Additionally, the crew and food last year were much better than this year. Unless something is done to improve the seating situation I will find a different route to get us all there in the future even if it takes longer and costs more. |
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Posted: September-29 @ 16:38 est.
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| Name: |
Art John..... |
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I wanted to add a comment to your SAA file based on a late-July trip of Atlanta to Cape Town, via Joburg. First, I agree, the seats are very small and uncomfortable, much worse than the old 747’s (I made the same trip on them twice). The video screens did not work. Foot room is also restricted. But, I did not find fault with the cabin crew. They were friendly, attentive and helpful. They allowed me to stand and walk about as much as I wanted, provided beverage of choice at any time. My flight was scheduled through to Cape Town, with only a stop in Joburg. I confirmed this three days before departure. One hour before landing in Joburg, we were informed that we would have to deplane, go through customs, and get another domestic flight. The allocated two hours made it nearly impossible. With a huge stroke of luck, we did make it. Luckily, the new gun regulations were not yet in effect, or there would have been no chance. As it was, I had to get my gun permit myself, while I had arranged for such in Cape Town, hence wasted money. I was very lucky in the permitting process, as I grabbed my case as soon as I saw it and went to the proper office, being first in line. I didn’t realize I was supposed to “receive” my case from someone, not just grab it and go, but they got over that, and in fact it was the only reason we made the next flight, just barely. The confusion and rush was the fault of SAA. |
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Posted: September-29 @ 16:36 est.
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| Name: |
Carl Sto..... |
| Comment: |
South African Airways has gone the way of the domestic flights here in the States. I made a trip with them in September of 2003 on a Boeing 747. I made another flight with them in July 2004 on the new Airbus 340. There is absolutely no comparison between these two planes and the service in the passenger cabin. The 340 seating configuration is cramped, and the seats don’t fit well. In the economy section, the under-seat leg room is limited due to the control box for the personal movie screen. The aisles are narrow. In fact, the pilots have to carry their flight cases off the flight deck due to the narrow aisles. No one can pull a carry-on case of normal size down the aisles. You can say that a shoehorn was used to seat the passengers. Passengers who need to stretch are told to sit down. This is pitiful treatment of passengers. The new cabin crews don’t seem to be properly trained as they flounder providing the service to the passengers. On my return flight the crew that took over at Sol Island really was improperly equipped to provide service to the passengers. Breakfast service was a disaster, as the crew fell over each other as they appeared to be unfamiliar with their duties. The quality of the food has gone down and now compares to the crap that we have come to know on US carriers. On our flight from Atlanta to Johannesburg the crew couldn’t find the overnight kits for the whole plane. We did without. On our flight home we left an hour and a half late because they had an outdated checklist in the cockpit and couldn’t leave until they received a current one. The plane sat all day being prepared for the flight, but apparently no one bothered to do all the pre-flight checks. They announced this over the PA system to us. I believe that SAA was sold a bill of goods by the Airbus people as to comfort for the passengers, the economy of operating this plane and the range it could cover. SAA was a non-stop flight going from the US to South Africa either Johannesburg or Capetown prior to usage of the Airbus 340. Now you must stop at Sol Island going and coming due to the necessity of having adequate fuel to cover the flight distances. Instead of saving money, this has to cut into the so-called savings of operating this plane. SAA also has instituted the policy of non-guaranteed seat assignments. You can show up at the airport knowing that you have a seat assignment only to find out that the flight is overbooked and oversold. Your seat assignment may be good or you may be left waiting for a new seat to be assigned. The oversold, overbooked conditions are an everyday occurrence. I for one have decided that going through Europe may not be so bad after all. SAA needs to feel the competition from other airlines before they will make the needed changes to get back to the level of services they offered prior to the Airbus 340. Customer Service in Fort Lauderdale is fully aware of all the complaints, including flights running out of toilet paper, or being short the proper number of meals so that passengers are not fed. |
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Posted: September-29 @ 16:36 est.
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| Name: |
Paul Mac..... |
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The flight from Atlanta to JoBurg on the SA 340-600 Airbus really can be brutal. Due to the stop on Sol Island for about an hour or more, the flight takes about 18 ½ hours. The seats are hard and narrow. I’m not an extremely large person at 225 pounds and five feet 11 inches, but the seats are too narrow and the leg room is minimal. It’s almost impossible to sleep, and I am thankful the doctor gave me sleeping pills, so I got at least a couple hours of cramped sleep. On the way back, my son drew the window seat with the now dreaded box. This prevented him from stretching out his six-foot frame for any sleep. What are the SA people thinking to configure a plane like that? Even hunters, who are an adventuresome lot, will avoid these flights if they can. The French did it again, engineered a slower, less fuel efficient aircraft, albeit newer, that probably the execs got a deal on at SA Airlines. I will avoid that flight again if possible. |
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Posted: September-29 @ 16:34 est.
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| Name: |
Dr. Lind..... |
| Comment: |
Just a few comments on SAA and their service on my recent trip to Joberg via Atlanta. I was fortunate enough to be in their new business/first class section on the A-340, and I found the seats to be a pleasure, better than the business class seats on the old 747’s and about as good as first class. From there it goes downhill. I got a look at the coach section of the plane while boarding, and the comment I made to myself was, “What a cattle car.” A passenger in my section who had upgraded confirmed what I suspected, that the seats left you about as comfortable as a liberal democrat on his deathbed. As far as the service goes, it was atrocious. Three years ago on the 747’s I was impressed with the attention and care of the flight attendants. On my most recent trip in July, both on the flight over and back, I discovered that the good and prompt service ethic, along with significant English-speaking skills had disappeared. Sign language worked as well as anything. The stop in the Cape Verde Islands was also interesting in that you spent at least an hour on the ground supposedly refueling while security people searched the plane. The 747’s could make the trip non-stop. In addition an equally disinterested flight crew took the place of the first group of attendants. I can imagine what the service was like in coach. If they had been my employees, I would have fired half of them. |
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Posted: September-29 @ 16:32 est.
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| Name: |
Mark and..... |
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I too, have to share my disgust with the new planes. My wife and I just returned from a wonderful three-week safari in SA. If only I could forget the flight over and back. Compared to the 747’s, it is positively dreadful. The seats are so narrow, I can barely squeeze in between the armrests. I’m not overweight, and about six-foot-one-inch. The armrests will not fold all the way up, why the hell let them fold at all? The top of the armrest where your hand rests is smooth and curved, the bottom (which digs painfully into your thigh) is a sharp point. My knees were pushed into the seat in front of me, even with that seat back in the upright position, let alone lowered. There is a metal box bolted to the floor under the seat in front of you, so it’s impossible to even stretch your legs out under the seat. The air conditioning is basically non-existent; there no individual vents over your head to even get a warm draft. I think I lost five pounds just sweating for 20-plus hours. The food has hit bottom. We took the noonish flight out from ATL. We had an OK lunch, a glass of juice later, and for dinner, what was nothing more than a stale hot dog bun with 1 limp, paper thin slice of friggin’ cucumber! Nothing more until morning (15 hours later), when we received what could best be described as a warmed-up McDonald’s breakfast. The service was polite, I guess, but you really had to work to get anything at all. Better off to go to the galley and get your water, ice, etc. On the lighter side, they didn’t lose my guns. I don’t know what to do. I can’t afford business class, and you hear a lot of horror stories about Amsterdam, KLM, lost bags/guns, etc. We need to let SAA know that we are a major market, and changes need to be implemented. I for one will not fly them again. |
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